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Thursday, 24 April 2014

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Drivers on new Carlisle 'bypass' don't know how to use roundabouts - claim

Motorists are getting themselves in a spin over how to handle the roundabouts on Carlisle’s new western 'bypass', it has emerged.

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Sorry to bump a diffused discussion.

Things have not improved.

Each day I am overtaking people on the inside lane on these roundabouts, safely of course, to get ahead of those who continue to use the outside lane for maintaining their route along the same road (it seems obvious what their intentions are after only two roundabouts - the CNDR). However, I will not accept the risk should I not be able to safely negotiate the exit without other drivers having to change speed. Many times I have gone round again, for my exit being blocked.

@Anon on 7 March 2012 at 19:26:- the twelve o' clock rule, as I understand it, is a simplification of the highway code taught by instructors and does not apply to those rules on marked lanes. If your exit is posted as being past twelve o' clock you should indicate right and take the appropriate inner lane if available (with two lanes you would direct your vehicle to the innermost), giving way to traffic until that route is available. Then indicating to the right until you have passed the last exit before your destination, you should then indicate left to change lanes and proceed to exit the roundabout if the lane and following exit are safely clear (checking your left mirror and glancing to your left blind-spot, if necessary beforehand). If you are unable to exit safely, you should continue to indicate right, continuing in the appropriate inner lane until the last exit before your chosen destination when, the above applies once again. Yes, this is not documented like this in the highway code however, it does simplify a rather complex explanation of the appropriate use of an unmarked roundabout.

This was not a dig at you Anon, just a clarification of a point I made earlier with reference to your comment.

For those who are teaching new drivers, thank you for your patience. Our roads are safer if that patience and forethought is applied every time after a new driver has passed their driving test. They have only proven that the law has considered them safe to learn by themselves.

If some personal traffic management could be applied to this route temporarily, this may help regular commuters to learn to use this new road safely. I would immediately suggest police presence however, knowing there is a lack of resource, a suitable substitute: lanes marked with arrows for ahead-left and right would make a world of difference as a previous poster has rightly pointed out.

That is my rant and again I have stubs for fingers. A fake elbow and metal jaw were not enough you see? I am proud to be wrong, and am very pleased to learn.

Posted by Mike on 7 June 2012 at 23:17

A more common issue is that there seem to be many drivers who ignore the 12 o clock rule when planning to continue ahead on these roundabouts. I have had a couple of close calls because some plonker behind me has come along side me to turn off at the same exit. To sort this out people don't need advanced driver training or a driver network, that's a waste of time and the ignorant folk who cause the problem won't listen anyway.

If you want mindless sheep to follow the route you want them too, you just point them in the reight direction. All it would take is some arrows in each lane as you approach each roundabout. It's what they do in the rest of the country. I'm not quite sure why this simple measure hasn't been used here.

Posted by Simon on 6 April 2012 at 07:25

As if by magic, a wagon just came up the inside of my wife who was correctly using the 12 o clock rule, accelerated to the slip and trashed her driver side door, looked in his mirror and failed to stop. The police have been informed and hopefully he will be stopped before he causes any more damage to drivers driving correctly as per the Highway code.

Posted by Craig on 20 March 2012 at 15:56

I noticed this on CTC's (Cyclists Touring Club) forum on cycling journey of LETJOG's topics....

The Carlisle Bypass. "The Standard of driving is abysmal and lane markings confusing........."

The CTC site seems well commented on the advantage and disadvantage's of the new road with provision of cyclists even giving correct highway code advice for the roundabouts but being aware of drivers that cannot use the eight new roundabouts. One was existing= total 9. O's, O's and O's. My first experience as a car driver was a fit of dizzy spells, braking... slowing down, entering, turning, exiting, speeding up, slowing down, entering,turning, exiting,speeding up, slowing down, entering, turning, exiting, speeding up..... slowing down, braking, stopping, waiting, entering, turning, exiting, speeding up. Phew, thats just half way.

Thank You Mr Tony Markley for new CNDR opening publication leaflet by Connect of 14th February 2012. Also on Councils website shortly. It is a fantastic new road and all have done an excellent job with obvious many drivers still learning how to read (use) the new road.

County Council please 'no' to any planning of a tenth roundabout with Dalston Road and Peter Lane Road? Seeing family's with children using new CNDR cycleway is a safe offroad cyclelane link on this busy road to nearby Cummerdale (linking city and almost quieter roads towards lakes) cycleway on the cards? In similar manner links to city footpaths could be improved instead of grass verge's were the code of walking has to be applied for one's own safety and some Carlisle drivers ignorance that thinking walkers should not be there with giving little regard to their presence.

Having been this week on Carlisle's Castleway being in correct road lane and speed I just got blast pipped for nothing by a lorry driver on my rear left as I was approaching the Hardwicke Circus roundabout. Please note DSA that standard is now decreed as Abysmal!

Posted by Roy on 18 March 2012 at 09:42

I think that drivers in this area are being dumbed down constantly by traffic planners. Not only are we not being trusted to be able to use junctions ( remember them?), and have to negotiate more and more roundabouts, but the planners stick traffic lights on them too. Traffic lights on a roundabout totally negates the purpose or the roundabout. Not only this, but traffic light cause more problems with people speeding up to narrowly get through the lights, THATS whats causing the accidents. All its taking is someone to late getting through a amber/red light, and someone late for work jumping the lights just before green. If there were simply more cops on the roads as there USED to be, standards wouldn't be slipping so far.

Posted by angel on 13 March 2012 at 10:01

I disagree. The problem is that people are going 'straight on' round the roundabouts if they are remaining on the bye pass, even if the bye pass is past the '12 o'clock' point. The dotted lines creating two lanes on the roundabouts don't help. The dotted lines should start from the bypass and go round the round about and then head towards the next bit of the bypass (rather being continuous round the way). This would encourage people going straight on around the bypass to use both lanes on the roundabouts and encourage people not going straight on but going past the bypass to use the inner roundabout lane thus avoiding being cut across by traffic continuing on the bypass via an exit before the continuing traffic's exit. Hope you understood that!

Posted by AG on 12 March 2012 at 11:45

The New roundabout by Asda is terrible for this. People sit in the left (meant for the motorway junction) and cut you off upon entering the ind. est route. Iv'e fitted a camera to my car as i have a feeling it's only a matter of time before i don't react quick enough to these drivers. The roundabouts are simple and clear lines even show you the route ahead. I think people get confused by the way the lines cut across each other and vary in the angle they turn.

Posted by Dave on 9 March 2012 at 16:25

Just anted to say, The new road is great, but the roundabouts are a nightmare. A car in front of me nearly got taken out this morning. It was at the Peter Lane roundabout. A car was rightly so in the inside lane coming from Thursby and wanting to turn down Peter Lane. He correctly went into the inside lane and tried to turn down Peter Lane, but a waggon coming from the Carlisle road had already started to come out. Therefore he was blocking the turning. I know the waggon is to blame for coming out, but this is happening a lot. There is going to be a bad accident on these roundabouts. I just hope it isn't me.

Posted by JTH58 on 9 March 2012 at 14:09

Gordon, people have posted that ad nauseum in the comments section. Most people know what the rules are, it's what about the people who don't? Answer = Crash! Dangerous things should be designed to counteract human stupidity where possible, which is why it's surprising to learn these roundabouts haven't been designed as spiralabouts. This could easily be done so the left-hand lane always turns off onto the bypass exits of the roundabout, and the right-hand lane then becomes the left-hand lane. Anyone who doesn't turn off when the laft-hand lane does has the option of crashing into a safety railing if they want :-) At least that way it's the people in the wrong who learn!

Posted by martin on 9 March 2012 at 13:16

If there are TWO lanes on the approach to a roundabout, there are TWO lanes on the roundabout. Drivers turning left should stay in the left lane, then turn left. Drivers going straight on should also stay in the left lane and keep to the left of the roundabout, indicating left after they have passed the first exit. Those turning right should approach in the right lane, indicating right, then after they have passed the second exit, indicate left and move to the left lane of the roundabout then use the exit.

Posted by Gordon Ashley on 9 March 2012 at 12:28

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